Can the city of Poplar Bluff afford a new building to house city offices?
Answers vary among city council members, who are pursuing a contract to purchase Northwest Medical Center for a city hall, police department and city court.
They are securing $8 million in financing for a project, which could cost as much as $9 million by some estimates.
Council members alternately say the costs will come down on the drawing table or the information needed to make this call isn't available.
The Daily American Republic requested last week any documents concerning renovation estimates or the condition of the 26-year-old Northwest building. No response was received from city manager Mark Massingham as of Saturday.
Figures contained in this article and an accompanying graphic were discussed by the council at an August meeting where they voted 4-3 to pursue Northwest, and at 2015 meetings held with architects and officials.
"We have some projected numbers from the architects," said at-large council member Ron Black. "Of course, those will have to become finalized and become solid numbers. There's probably some room for us to cut some things in what he (the architect) proposes."
The council has promised it will vote on the contract for the Northwest purchase during a public meeting. No date has been set for that meeting.
None of the council members could say if a renovation plan or more detailed estimate would be presented to citizens before the contract is signed.
"As far as hard figures, I don't think we've got any yet really," said Mayor Ed DeGaris. "I think you need to have those figures."
The council already has started the process to secure a maximum of $8 million in financing for the project. The debt payments will be made from the capital improvement fund, which also covers loan payments for the city's technology projects, other building needs and citywide equipment costs. This includes everything from police and fire department vehicles to office printers.
Council members have said it will cost almost $3.5 million to purchase the Barron Road medical complex.
Another nearly $4.3 million could be needed for renovations, some said in August. Black, council member at large Steve Davis, mayor pro tem Susan McVey and Ward 4 representative Philip Crocker voted for Northwest at that time.
DeGaris and council members Robert Smith and Barbara Horton were against it. They since have said they support an ongoing petition drive to force a vote of the residents concerning the location of city hall.
No information has been provided on what the renovation figures represent, except that it would pay for work to only the limited sections of the building that are needed for city offices.
Architects previously have said demolition of the Second Street complex that still houses city court and council chambers could cost up to $1.3 million. This figure includes removing the Oak Street parking garage, which has been condemned for many years.
Crocker believes the demolition costs should not be included in the discussion to purchase Northwest. He also questions the renovation estimates.
He does feel the city can get into the Northwest building for under $8 million. Council members can make changes to the renovation project to get it down to a reasonable amount, he said.
"But if you throw the part in for the tear down, I don't think we could put it at either spot," Crocker said, referencing the original downtown location planned for city hall.
Elements, like an elaborate workout room for the police department and some of the requests made by city court, could be cut, he said.
He agrees more concrete numbers are needed to make decisions regarding the new city building.
"Every time I asked for that, I was told we couldn't get it," Crocker said, adding later of the vote to pursue Northwest, "It wasn't an easy decision, but if I had to vote on something, where the numbers are going to be kind of the same ... do I want it downtown or not? Right now, I don't because I think downtown is a sore spot."
In any remodeling project, there are going to be unavoidable issues that arise, said Horton, who represents Ward 3, including the downtown area.
"Could the city pay $8 million? Yes, by taking out a loan," she said. "But, the question is, should the city pay $8 million to buy and renovate an older building, which is larger than we need?
"To me, I think for $8 million or less, we could have a new building with new heating and cooling systems."
Northwest is close to 80,000 square feet.
Architects previously have identified about 60,000 square feet of space needs for the three facilities, which would relocate to the building.
Police, city hall and city court currently are located in three separate buildings, which are less than 16,000 square feet combined. This does not include an additional storage facility rented for the city hall and police department.
Council members opposed to Northwest have questioned how the city will pay for renovations and upkeep of unused space.
The site likely will have a maintenance budget like the old city hall, said DeGaris.
Those figures have not been presented to the public.
"You've got 20,000, 30,000 square feet that you're not going to use," DeGaris said. "They say it's for expansion, when the last thing we've done is lay people off."
It's about the value for the money, said McVey.
"It's much cheaper to rehab an existing building than it is to build something new," she said. "We won't spend all of the money to get it rehabbed right up front. We'll get in there and get it functional, and we'll add to it as we go along.
"I wouldn't spend $8 million anywhere in the city."
The current budget does not include any upgrades to Barron Road, which does not have shoulders or sidewalks in this area. It also does not include improvements to the entrances at Northwest, which are in a hilly stretch of the road.
"Until we sign the contract and actually start doing that, all that's a moot point. We've got to get over this hurdle," said McVey, adding, "Ambulances have gone in and out for years. ... In a perfect world, you would do more than in a functional world."
Horton says the cost of making the road safe should be figured into remodeling costs.
"I'm skeptical about employees and citizens pulling onto the road from the facility," she said.
The council wants to work with the people doing the remodelling work and design to find ways to save money, said Davis.
"I think we need to be conservative in that and have something nice, but not elaborate," he said. "We should not spend any money that's not necessary."
Smith is afraid to take on the renovation without more information.
"We need to take all the guess work out of it," said Smith. "I would like to get a full inspection of the building, not just council members going in."
Some council members have said this would be done as part of the purchase contract process, but could not say if the information would be presented to the public.
"You don't go buy a car, you don't go buy a house, unless you're going to be able to afford the purchase," Smith said. "We know the purchase price, but we don't know the renovation cost. You don't buy anything without knowing the full cost."
The architect has provided estimates based on industry standards, said Black.
"I believe he will be in the ballpark with those," he said.